One last rant
Jul. 31st, 2002 08:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
thebratqueenI? Should be dealing with the move. But I just saw yet another post about theft in fandom so please allow me to get one last rant off and, while I'm at it, use my new icon just for the purposes of when I need to explain things in small words.
My rebuttal to some of the arguments:
Are you kidding me? You're stealing from the copyright owners without THEIR permission! Who are you to talk about not stealing?
Hang on there, tiger - what fandom are you talking about? Because some copyright owners (like Anne Rice) hate fanfic, photomanips, you name it, others (like Neil Gaiman and Storm Constantine) love it and still others (like JK Rowling/WB, Joss Whedon/Fox) have the approval of the creator but not necessarily the copyright holder.
Moreover in still other fandoms things like fanfic and fanart exist in a limbo of "Don't ask, don't tell", where the fans are allowed to do what they want so long as they don't officially bring it to the attention of the powers that be. If they do, TPTB are forced (again usually by things like WB and Fox) to disapprove of it and put a stop to it. But as long as everybody keeps it under the table then yeah, it's got unexpressed permission to exist.
So don't assume. Yeah, somebody in the Anne Rice fandom who still does fanfic is violating the express wishes of the copyright holder and if you want to make an argument about hypocracy in that fandom you can go right ahead. But don't use the "you don't have permission" argument until you first say what fandoms you're talking about and prove to me you know what kind of permission they have.
Photo manips suck! They don't take time!
Follow along closely: SEPARATE ISSUE. Did you get that? I'll put it in blink tags if I have to. Let's try again:
THE QUALITY OF THE PIECE IS IN NO WAY RELATED TO WHETHER OR NOT TAKING THE PIECE IS THEFT.
First off if it sucks then why are you taking it? But second of all SEE ABOVE. "It sucks" is a judgement of quality "it's mine" is a judgement of who OWNED the damn thing. If you get caught shoplifting you don't get to excuse yourself by saying "But this is a really ugly sweater!" If I swipe a Britney Spears CD from a store I don't get off scott free by pointing out that the girl can't sing. Why?
THE QUALITY OF THE PIECE IS IN NO WAY RELATED TO WHETHER OR NOT TAKING THE PIECE IS THEFT.
Learn this. Live this. Love this. I WILL start smacking people if they don't stop using this as an argument.
If you're stealing you have no right to protest me stealing from you! You swiped the photos for the photo manip, so now I'm swiping them for my web page! Who are you to complain?
My guess? Somebody with more experience in fandom than you, Chester. Here's a stepladder, get over your sense of entitlement and pay attention.
One, many artists just want a thank you for their work (as they themselves thank the copyright holders by being fans, buying the merchandise, watching the show, getting thousands of tickets for the movie, etc). Very often the "please let me know if you take this" means they just want some feedback to know that people like their stuff.
Two, many artists just want credit for their work. If you like the piece enough to take it, then give a shoutout to where it came from - as AGAIN we all give shoutouts to the canon sources of our material.
Three, many artists would like NOT to get their asses sued and the fandom shut down around them because YOUR little newbie ass couldn't be bothered to show some damn manners. Remember what I said above about "don't ask, don't tell"? Did it occur to you that maybe the fandom that is currently flaming you to Hell and back is one of them? Did it occur to you that by taking a picture/story/whatever that the creator wanted hidden and slapping it on your page without asking if it was okay now put that person and the rest of the fandom in danger?
There are some fandoms out there that exist quite fine so long as nobody trumpets their existance to the powers that be. Yeah, some are like the Anne Rice fandom where they're in hiding because they're defying what Anne wanted, but others ARE trying to do what the copyright holders want and part of that is keeping mum on the fiction and the artwork.
If you're so good why don't you do your own original work?
If you're so invested in this argument why don't you take it SOMEWHERE RELEVANT? Our words for today, children, are: SEPARATE ISSUE.
You stole from the copyright people first!
Which again in no way negates the fact that if you steal the story, picture, whatever then you - watch carefully, here's where it gets tricky - stole the story, picture, whatever.
Let's use that earlier example. I steal the CD. You come to my house and steal it from me. Now yes, the fact that I stole the CD myself means I can't go to the cops to complain but OTOH I sure as hell can go to all of our mutual friends and tell them not to turn their backs on you because you've got the stickiest fingers outside of a stick insect. Theft is theft, children, and your culpability doesn't go away just because you're the second thief on the list.
I can do what I want!
Hey, I can come over to your table at a restaurant and vomit on your dinner if I want to. Free country and all. However I don't because I have something called M-A-N-N-E-R-S. Try some. They're not as painful as you think.
My rebuttal to some of the arguments:
Are you kidding me? You're stealing from the copyright owners without THEIR permission! Who are you to talk about not stealing?
Hang on there, tiger - what fandom are you talking about? Because some copyright owners (like Anne Rice) hate fanfic, photomanips, you name it, others (like Neil Gaiman and Storm Constantine) love it and still others (like JK Rowling/WB, Joss Whedon/Fox) have the approval of the creator but not necessarily the copyright holder.
Moreover in still other fandoms things like fanfic and fanart exist in a limbo of "Don't ask, don't tell", where the fans are allowed to do what they want so long as they don't officially bring it to the attention of the powers that be. If they do, TPTB are forced (again usually by things like WB and Fox) to disapprove of it and put a stop to it. But as long as everybody keeps it under the table then yeah, it's got unexpressed permission to exist.
So don't assume. Yeah, somebody in the Anne Rice fandom who still does fanfic is violating the express wishes of the copyright holder and if you want to make an argument about hypocracy in that fandom you can go right ahead. But don't use the "you don't have permission" argument until you first say what fandoms you're talking about and prove to me you know what kind of permission they have.
Photo manips suck! They don't take time!
Follow along closely: SEPARATE ISSUE. Did you get that? I'll put it in blink tags if I have to. Let's try again:
THE QUALITY OF THE PIECE IS IN NO WAY RELATED TO WHETHER OR NOT TAKING THE PIECE IS THEFT.
First off if it sucks then why are you taking it? But second of all SEE ABOVE. "It sucks" is a judgement of quality "it's mine" is a judgement of who OWNED the damn thing. If you get caught shoplifting you don't get to excuse yourself by saying "But this is a really ugly sweater!" If I swipe a Britney Spears CD from a store I don't get off scott free by pointing out that the girl can't sing. Why?
THE QUALITY OF THE PIECE IS IN NO WAY RELATED TO WHETHER OR NOT TAKING THE PIECE IS THEFT.
Learn this. Live this. Love this. I WILL start smacking people if they don't stop using this as an argument.
If you're stealing you have no right to protest me stealing from you! You swiped the photos for the photo manip, so now I'm swiping them for my web page! Who are you to complain?
My guess? Somebody with more experience in fandom than you, Chester. Here's a stepladder, get over your sense of entitlement and pay attention.
One, many artists just want a thank you for their work (as they themselves thank the copyright holders by being fans, buying the merchandise, watching the show, getting thousands of tickets for the movie, etc). Very often the "please let me know if you take this" means they just want some feedback to know that people like their stuff.
Two, many artists just want credit for their work. If you like the piece enough to take it, then give a shoutout to where it came from - as AGAIN we all give shoutouts to the canon sources of our material.
Three, many artists would like NOT to get their asses sued and the fandom shut down around them because YOUR little newbie ass couldn't be bothered to show some damn manners. Remember what I said above about "don't ask, don't tell"? Did it occur to you that maybe the fandom that is currently flaming you to Hell and back is one of them? Did it occur to you that by taking a picture/story/whatever that the creator wanted hidden and slapping it on your page without asking if it was okay now put that person and the rest of the fandom in danger?
There are some fandoms out there that exist quite fine so long as nobody trumpets their existance to the powers that be. Yeah, some are like the Anne Rice fandom where they're in hiding because they're defying what Anne wanted, but others ARE trying to do what the copyright holders want and part of that is keeping mum on the fiction and the artwork.
If you're so good why don't you do your own original work?
If you're so invested in this argument why don't you take it SOMEWHERE RELEVANT? Our words for today, children, are: SEPARATE ISSUE.
You stole from the copyright people first!
Which again in no way negates the fact that if you steal the story, picture, whatever then you - watch carefully, here's where it gets tricky - stole the story, picture, whatever.
Let's use that earlier example. I steal the CD. You come to my house and steal it from me. Now yes, the fact that I stole the CD myself means I can't go to the cops to complain but OTOH I sure as hell can go to all of our mutual friends and tell them not to turn their backs on you because you've got the stickiest fingers outside of a stick insect. Theft is theft, children, and your culpability doesn't go away just because you're the second thief on the list.
I can do what I want!
Hey, I can come over to your table at a restaurant and vomit on your dinner if I want to. Free country and all. However I don't because I have something called M-A-N-N-E-R-S. Try some. They're not as painful as you think.
